龔鵬程對話海外學(xué)者第一百四十期：在后現(xiàn)代情境中，被技術(shù)統(tǒng)治的人類社會，只有強(qiáng)化交談、重建溝通倫理，才能獲得文化新生的力量。這不是誰的理論，而是每個(gè)人都應(yīng)實(shí)踐的活動。龔鵬程先生遊走世界，并曾主持過“世界漢學(xué)研究中心”。我們會陸續(xù)推出“龔鵬程對話海外學(xué)者”系列文章，請他對話一些學(xué)界有意義的靈魂。范圍不局限于漢學(xué)，會涉及多種學(xué)科。以期深山長谷之水，四面而出。

布倫丹·伯切爾教授（Professor Brendan Burchell）

劍橋大學(xué)社會科學(xué)教授，考古學(xué)、人類學(xué)和社會學(xué)學(xué)位委員會主席。

布倫丹·伯切爾教授的第一個(gè)學(xué)位是1977-80年在伯明翰大學(xué)的心理學(xué)學(xué)位。之后他前往華威大學(xué)攻讀社會心理學(xué)博士學(xué)位，然后他在城市大學(xué)擔(dān)任了一年的職務(wù)，教授社會心理學(xué)、統(tǒng)計(jì)學(xué)和計(jì)算機(jī)課程。1985年，他的職業(yè)方向發(fā)生了變化，被任命為劍橋大學(xué)應(yīng)用經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)系的研究員，協(xié)助一個(gè)名為 "社會變化和經(jīng)濟(jì)生活的倡議 "的項(xiàng)目，與經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)家、社會心理學(xué)家和社會學(xué)家合作，研究勞動力市場的各個(gè)方面及其對個(gè)人的影響。1988年，伯切爾教授從應(yīng)用經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)系轉(zhuǎn)到人類、社會和政治科學(xué)學(xué)院擔(dān)任講師。

2011年，伯切爾被授予皮爾金頓獎(jiǎng)，這是劍橋大學(xué)的優(yōu)秀教學(xué)獎(jiǎng)。

伯切爾最近的研究項(xiàng)目，包括勞動力市場經(jīng)驗(yàn)對心理健康的影響、工作強(qiáng)度和工作不安全感；過渡到自主創(chuàng)業(yè)的職業(yè)的預(yù)測因素和相關(guān)因素；管理者和員工對工作、兼職工作的不同看法，以及在工作條件和職業(yè)、不寧腿綜合癥和財(cái)務(wù)恐懼方面的性別差異。

他的工作在報(bào)紙和社交媒體上被廣泛報(bào)道。2019年，他的團(tuán)隊(duì)在就業(yè)劑量項(xiàng)目上的工作得到了《衛(wèi)報(bào)》、《獨(dú)立報(bào)》、ITV、《電訊報(bào)》、《地鐵報(bào)》和Vice等新網(wǎng)站的廣泛媒體報(bào)道。 他已經(jīng)指導(dǎo)了25名博士生。

龔鵬程：你好。在勞動力市場中的一些工作經(jīng)歷，例如工作沒有保障、工作強(qiáng)度大、破產(chǎn)和失業(yè)，對人的心理健康分別有怎樣的影響？這種影響會因人而異嗎？與當(dāng)時(shí)所處的社會時(shí)期又有著怎么樣的關(guān)系？

布倫丹·伯切爾：龔教授，您好。關(guān)于就業(yè)與心理健康之間的關(guān)系，現(xiàn)在已經(jīng)有了相當(dāng)多的研究。 失業(yè)的人往往比有工作的人遭遇更多精神疾病的癥狀（例如焦慮和抑郁）。即便有工作的人，工作也會負(fù)面地影響他們的心理健康。例如，那些擔(dān)心失去工作的人，或者擔(dān)心他們的工作時(shí)間和工資可能會被削減的人，會明顯比那些有穩(wěn)定工作的人的情況要差。 心理健康狀況不佳也與不得不長時(shí)間做高強(qiáng)度的工作有關(guān)。我們還發(fā)現(xiàn)，當(dāng)在壓抑的環(huán)境中工作時(shí)— 例如，人們被欺負(fù)或不被尊重時(shí)，也會負(fù)面地影響心理健康狀況。

社會學(xué)家的一個(gè)重要主張是，許多情況都是由社會構(gòu)建而成的，因此在不同的情況下會呈現(xiàn)不同的現(xiàn)象，這取決于，例如，國家的福利狀況或者工作的規(guī)范與準(zhǔn)則。然而，隨著時(shí)間的推移，研究往往傾向于表現(xiàn)不同國家之間一些顯著的相似之處。

這項(xiàng)研究主要是基于所收集的數(shù)據(jù)中普遍的現(xiàn)象，但小規(guī)模的定性研究也確實(shí)表明，除了這些普遍的影響之外，也有很多例外。例如，有些人似乎能夠挺過失業(yè)，仍然過著健康的生活。

破產(chǎn)對心理健康的影響還沒有得到廣泛的研究。破產(chǎn)對心理健康的影響，不僅在業(yè)務(wù)上，而且經(jīng)常與其他問題相關(guān)，如婚姻沖突。宣告最終破產(chǎn)這一舉動，是人們各種問題中恢復(fù)的一個(gè)開端，但實(shí)際情況還因人而異。

There is now a considerable body of research on the relationship between employment and mental health. We know that those people who are involuntarily excluded from employment tend to have considerably more symptoms of mental illness (for instance anxiety and depression) than those with jobs. And among those with jobs there are a number of features of those jobs that are associated with poor mental health. For instance, those who are worried about losing their job, or are worried that there might be cuts in the hours and pay that they are offered, are notably worse off than those with secure jobs. Having to work under constant time pressure (i.e. work intensification) is also associated with poor mental health. We also find poor mental health when the social environment in the workplace is toxic – for instance people feeling bullied or disrespected.

One of the big claims by Sociologists is that many situations are socially constructed, and therefore will play out differently in different situations depending on, for instance, the nature of the welfare state or the work ethic. However, the research tends more often than not to show remarkable similarities between countries and over time.

This research is based mainly on generalisations from large datasets, but smaller-scale qualitative studies do show that, as well as these general effects, there are plenty of exceptions. There are some individuals who seem to be able to survive unemployment and still lead healthy lives, for instance.

The mental health effects of bankruptcy have not been so widely studied. It is often associated with a wider breakdown not only in a business but often coinciding with other problems such as marital strife. The final declaration of bankruptcy can often be the start of the recovery from those problems but will vary enormously from case to case.

龔鵬程：在遇到不穩(wěn)定的就業(yè)狀況或者在失業(yè)時(shí)，男性與女性的受到的心理影響是否有所差異？

布倫丹·伯切爾：早期關(guān)于就業(yè)和幸福的研究大多只針對男性，其基本假設(shè)是，男性的幸福更多地取決于養(yǎng)家糊口的角色，而女性的心理健康更多地取決于家庭狀況。但幾乎沒有證據(jù)能證明這一點(diǎn)，這也許很令人驚訝，因?yàn)槟行院团栽诠ぷ魃钪写嬖谥薮笄页掷m(xù)的差異。

那么，如果男女之間沒有差異，是否有任何群體能夠比其他人更好地度過失業(yè)和勞動力市場的不穩(wěn)定的時(shí)期呢？有一些類型的個(gè)體已經(jīng)被認(rèn)定。

首先，擁有強(qiáng)烈的職業(yè)操守（有時(shí)被誤稱為 “新教工作準(zhǔn)則"）似乎會使人們更加依賴就業(yè)來獲得幸福，因此，那些不認(rèn)為工作是可以塑造性格或展現(xiàn)長處的人，可以更好地應(yīng)對失業(yè)。也有一些人具有非常強(qiáng)烈的價(jià)值觀，他們優(yōu)先考慮在工作之外（如慈善、宗教或體育）取得成就，以至于他們認(rèn)為就業(yè)妨礙了他們真正的生活目標(biāo)。有些人似乎對逆境的適應(yīng)力更強(qiáng)，他們把逆境當(dāng)作挑戰(zhàn)，不像其他人那樣容易受到生活瑣事和壓力的影響。

Much of the early research on employment and wellbeing was only conducted on men, with an underlying assumption that men’s wellbeing is more dependent on their role as breadwinner whereas women’s mental health is more dependent on their domestic situation. But there is very little evidence for this, which is perhaps surprising given the large, persistent differences between the working lives of men and women.

So, if there aren’t differences between men and women, are there any groups of individuals who are able to ride out times of unemployment and labour market instability better than others? Some types of individuals have been identified.

First, having a strong work ethic (sometimes referred to misleadingly as the “Protestant work ethic”) seems to make people more reliant on employment for their wellbeing, and therefore those individuals who don’t think that work is an important thing for character building or to demonstrate virtue can cope better with unemployment. There are also some individuals with very strong values and who prioritise achievement through non-work (such as charity, religion or sport) so much so that they regard employment as getting in the way of their true goals in life. And finally there are people who seem to be more resilient to adversity, who treat adversity as challenge, who just don’t seem to be as vulnerable to adverse life events and stress as others.

龔鵬程：從心理健康和幸福的角度來看，一個(gè)人每周應(yīng)該工作多少個(gè)小時(shí)呢？這與工作者的工作性質(zhì)或個(gè)人生活有什么關(guān)系？

布倫丹·伯切爾：許多人認(rèn)為，每周工作五天，每天工作八小時(shí)是很自然的事情，但事實(shí)肯定不是這樣。 在工業(yè)革命早期，許多工廠工人的工作時(shí)間要長得多，而且是一周工作六天；減少工作時(shí)長的過程是漫長的，而且還是工會斗爭來的結(jié)果。

大約100年前，人們曾樂觀地認(rèn)為，工作時(shí)長的減少將持續(xù)下去，使人們得到解放，不再需要花如此多的時(shí)間去賺取僅僅足夠糊口的錢。畢竟隨著機(jī)械化的發(fā)展，每年的生產(chǎn)力都在提高，而這種生產(chǎn)力意味著，每年我們都應(yīng)該能夠以更少的成本生產(chǎn)更多的產(chǎn)品。但是，那些關(guān)于工作周將持續(xù)大幅減少的預(yù)測并沒有成為現(xiàn)實(shí)。幾十年來，減少工作時(shí)長（WTR）是很多人的首要任務(wù)，但依舊遲遲沒有進(jìn)展。

全球的生產(chǎn)率每年可量化增長約1.5%-2%，在指定時(shí)間內(nèi)，員工可以生產(chǎn)出更多產(chǎn)品了。這種進(jìn)步歸功于更好的技術(shù)、更好的管理以及受過更好教育的員工。如果把這種進(jìn)展投入到減少工作時(shí)長上面，我們在21世紀(jì)就可以每周只工作一到兩天。但很顯然這種情況并沒有發(fā)生，很多人仍然在做著長時(shí)間的工作。工作時(shí)長沒有得到減少的原因有很多，包括我們的消費(fèi)主義文化、并且還有許多人很喜歡工作，享受著通過工作獲得的地位。

我們已經(jīng)確定，就業(yè)會使人有更好的精神狀態(tài)，但是一個(gè)人每周需要做多少有償?shù)墓ぷ鞑拍軓木蜆I(yè)中獲得益處呢？最近的實(shí)證研究表明，即使人們每周只工作一天，也能對心理健康產(chǎn)生極大的促進(jìn)作用。因此，減少工作時(shí)間可能會帶來很多好處。減少工作時(shí)長還有其他好處，包括可以減少二氧化碳排放，大部分的二氧化碳排放來自于工作場所，工資的上漲會直接導(dǎo)致消費(fèi)的增加，這也是使溫室氣體增加的一個(gè)重要因素。如果成年人的工作時(shí)間減少了，他們或許可以成為更好的父母和更好的公民。

所有的這些都引發(fā)了許多猜測，工作成為了我們生活中的一個(gè)重要組成部分，那么當(dāng)機(jī)器人和人工智能將我們從工作中解放出來，現(xiàn)實(shí)會變得大不相同，未來的世界可能會變得更好。

Many people assume that there is something ‘natural’ about working eight hours a day for five days a week, but this certainly isn’t the case. Early in the industrial revolution many factory workers were putting in much longer hours, and for six days a week; reductions in working time came slowly, and only as a result of trade union battles.

About 100 years ago there was some optimism that the reduction in working hours would continue, liberating humankind from devoting such a big part of their lives to just earning enough to live. After all, each year productivity increases with mechanisation and a that productivity means that, each year, we should be able to produce a bit more for a bit less. But those predictions of continued, large reductions in the working week were not met by reality. Working Time Reduction (WTR) has been a priority for many individuals for many decades now, but progress has almost stalled.

Year on year there is a global increase in productivity quantifiable to about 1.5%-2% per year; each employee produces more in a given time period. This progress is generally attributable to better technology and a better-managed and better-educated workforce. If this dividend was put into reduced working hours, we could easily be working just one or two days a week in the 21st century. Clearly that hasn’t happened, and many people still work long hours. There are probably many reasons for this failure to substantially reduce working time, ranging from our consumerist culture to the fact that many people enjoy their jobs and the status that goes with them.

We have already established that employment is associated with better mental health, but just how much paid work does one need each week to get the benefits of being employed? Recent empirical studies have shown that even one day’s work a week gives all the boost to mental health of paid work, suggesting that there might be much to be gained from reducing working time. Other benefits might include a reduction in climate-changing CO2 emissions – much CO2 is emitted in the workplace, and increased earnings feed directly into increased consumption, also a big factor in greenhouse gasses. And if adults spend less time at work they might be better parents and better citizens.

All this feeds into much speculation about how the world might be a better place in the future when robotics and artificial intelligence liberates us from work being such a big component of out lives, but like so many predictions about the future, the reality might be quite different.

龔鵬程：雇主和員工可以采取哪些措施來避免心理健康問題？

布倫丹·伯切爾：作為人類，我們不能只適應(yīng)我們所處的環(huán)境， 我們也可以改變所處的環(huán)境。我們在21世紀(jì)所看到的變化之一是，每個(gè)人對自己的心理健康有了更多的關(guān)注，并且意識到了賺更多的錢不一定會讓我們更快樂。也許通過全球的新冠病毒給我們的工作生活帶來的沖擊，使許多人意識到他們的生活可以從根本上得到改善。比如說人們會主動選擇每周減少工作幾個(gè)小時(shí)，利用空閑時(shí)間去做一些真正使自己身心更健康的事情。可以是為了讓自己更健康而去做運(yùn)動，也可以是以符合政治或宗教價(jià)值觀的方式為社會做貢獻(xiàn)。

在我們的社會中，我們?nèi)匀皇艿浆F(xiàn)實(shí)中經(jīng)濟(jì)和文化規(guī)范的巨大影響，但我們可以通過自己的努力改善自己生活和心理健康。

雇主們也可以發(fā)揮很大作用。在如今，大多數(shù)人的工作環(huán)境比他們的祖輩要安全得多，也更愉悅。這是由于政府立法部門和工會的談判給雇主帶來的壓力。 但是，雇主也是可以帶來改變的。隨著心理健康在當(dāng)代話題中的顯著地位，許多雇主將工作中的幸福感置于純粹的經(jīng)濟(jì)考慮之上。這可能是因?yàn)樗麄兿嘈趴鞓泛徒】档墓と烁猩a(chǎn)力，或者是因?yàn)樗麄円庾R到，為了招聘到最好的員工，他們需要在工作場所優(yōu)先考慮健康問題，而不是上漲工資。 或者，在某些情況下，雇主真的想把改善員工的心理健康本身作為一個(gè)目標(biāo)。 所有這些動機(jī)似乎都在工作場所的改善中發(fā)揮了作用，例如每周工作四天的趨勢。

As human beings, we don’t just react to the situations we find ourselves in, we can change those situations. One of the changes that we have seen in the 21st century is perhaps a better understanding by individuals about their own psychological wellbeing and realising that earning more money doesn’t necessarily make us happier. Perhaps the shocks to our working lives brought about by the global CV-19 pandemic has made many people realise that their lives could be fundamentally better. For instance, some people have decided to prioritise working fewer hours per week in order to free up time to do things that make them healthier in mind and body. That might be doing exercise to get fitter or contributing to society in a way that is consistent with deeply held political or religious values.

We are still hugely influenced by the economic reality and cultural norms in our societies, but we can also be agents who improve our own lives and mental health.

We are still hugely influenced by the economic reality and cultural norms in our societies, but we can also be agents who improve our own lives and mental health.

Employers can also make a big difference. Today, most people work in much safer and more pleasant environments than their grandparents. In part this has been due to pressures put on employers by government legislation and trade union negotiations. But employers are also agents who can bring about change. With the foregrounding of mental health in contemporary discourses, many employers have prioritised wellbeing at work over purely financial considerations. This may have been because they believe that happy and healthy workers are more productive, or because they realise that in order to recruit the best employees they need to prioritise wellbeing in the workplace over maximising salaries. Or, in some cases, employers genuinely want to improve the mental health of their employees as an end in itself. All of these motivations seem to play a part in improvements in workplaces, such as the trend towards a four-day week.

龔鵬程

龔鵬程，1956年生于臺北，臺灣師范大學(xué)博士，當(dāng)代著名學(xué)者和思想家。著作已出版一百九十多種。

辦有大學(xué)、出版社、雜志社、書院等，并規(guī)劃城市建設(shè)、主題園區(qū)等多處。講學(xué)于世界各地。并在北京、上海、杭州、臺北、巴黎、日本、澳門等地舉辦過書法展。現(xiàn)為美國龔鵬程基金會主席、《龔鵬程國際學(xué)刊》出版人。